March, 2008

Parting Shots

To Kukathas
State power to do harm must be diminished, certainly. But though the state does a great deal of harm when it is powerful and self-confident, the state as such is a necessity. Call it the lesser and necessary evil: without it there would be an extent and depth of insecurity that would make life [...]

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Final Thoughts on Patriotism

by William Galston
The Conversation
March 26th, 2008

Discussions of this sort are more likely to end in clarification of differences than in agreement. In his latest post, for example, Kateb says that “Love of country that expresses itself in killing and dying is not love at all, but some fantastic delusion.” I cannot believe that Kateb really means the full sweep of [...]

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Last Post from a Whiskey Patriot

by Chandran Kukathas
The Conversation
March 25th, 2008

Would the world be better off if no one were a patriot — as Professor Kateb suggests? Even in the United States in 1941-45? On one reading of Kateb’s analysis, the answer must be yes. If no one in the world were a patriot, there would, presumably, be no one wanting to fight for [...]

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Declaring Victory

by Walter Berns
The Conversation
March 25th, 2008

I think that I can now declare victory and, so to speak, go home. Professor Kateb now rests his case by making my argument. He says, as if I had said, patriotism’s “most important meaning is that unreserved loyalty to one’s country in a time of war — whatever one’s country is — is to [...]

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Patriot Games

by Chandran Kukathas
The Conversation
March 21st, 2008

Professor Kateb and I seem to be caught up in a game of chicken, each trying to outdo the other in his disdain for patriotism. As an Australian, all I can say is, I think Australians are better anti-patriots than Americans.
The more serious question, however, is what comes first: patriotism or the (warring) state? The [...]

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A Peculiarly Virulent Expression of Self-Love

To Professor Galston
(1) & (2) I’m certainly not going to quarrel with Galston about his love of his son. I emphasized that love of one’s own, when it takes a political form, is “a peculiarly virulent expansion of self-love.” We don’t have to feel guilty about the extended narcissism that Freud saw [...]

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The Patriotism of Enemies and the Health of the War-Spirit

To Professor Berns
I have been trying to suggest that patriotism is a feeling that is at the disposal of all countries, no matter what cause they pursue by means of war. Patriotism cannot be a principle of conduct because it is without any inherent moral commitment. Its most important meaning is that unreserved [...]

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Moderation in Pursuit of Patriotism is No Vice

by William Galston
The Conversation
March 21st, 2008

Kateb’s response to me raises a number of questions. Let me comment on a few.
(1) Kateb notes that constitutional patriotism involves devotion to a particular political order because it is one’s own and “not only” because it is legitimate. That’s true, but what’s wrong with it? My son happens to be [...]

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Fighting for the Idea of a Country

by Walter Berns
The Conversation
March 20th, 2008

Professor Kateb begins his response to me by agreeing with me concerning the close link between patriotism and popular government. I can return the favor by agreeing with him that popular government is not intended to serve the majority (of the people) “at the expense of the minority.” He continues by saying that he believes [...]

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Taking Seriousness Seriously

by Chandran Kukathas
The Conversation
March 20th, 2008

George Kateb wishes me to be more serious — or at least to take the state more seriously. Well, the most serious thing a philosopher can do is make distinctions, so let me begin with one. It is one thing to take the state seriously as a force in the world, and quite another [...]

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Patriotism Still A Mistake

The three responses provoked me to further thought, and I appreciate their incisiveness.
Answer to Professor Berns
I agree with Berns that there is a close link between popular government and patriotism. Popular government is the promise that government will serve the people — all the people and not just a few. Popular government supposedly undoes the [...]

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In Defense of a Reasonable Patriotism

by William Galston
Reaction Essay
March 17th, 2008

Like Walter Berns, the Brookings Institution’s William Galston faults George Kateb for failing to distinguish between virtuous and vicious forms of patriotism. He then observes that one may love one’s country without loving it in the way one loves a parent. Moreover, Galston argues, if we need the state, as Kateb admits, then it seems we may need patriotism. “It would seem to follow that the beliefs and traits of character that conduce to government’s security-providing function are ipso facto instrumentally justified, as civic virtues. That is the basis on which a reasonable patriotism may be defined and defended.”

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Patriotism: A Hair from the Tail of the Dog

by Chandran Kukathas
Reaction Essay
March 13th, 2008

The London School of Economics political theorist Chandran Kukathas argues that George Kateb “takes the state far too seriously, and fails to realize that it is the state, and not patriotism itself, that is the source of the problem.” Patriotism, Kukathas claims, is a symptom “of the place the state has in the life of a person or of a people.” When people come to think there is a problem that only the state can solve, patriotism tends to surge, but “they will come to think this because the state and its acolytes have persuaded — tricked, cajoled, manipulated, deceived, conned, frightened, bullied, sweet-talked — them into believing so.” However, the state is not going anywhere and therefore neither is patriotism. So “we should just get used to patriotism, patriots, and their discontents,” Kukathas concludes.

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