October, 2008

Closing Questions

by Bryan Caplan
The Conversation
October 22nd, 2008

Before this conversation ends, I’d like to press Charles Murray and Pedro Carneiro on signaling:
For Charles: In your view, why precisely does the market financially reward students for taking lots of classes that at best seem distantly related to job performance?  You don’t seem ready to sign on to my signaling story.  Do you have [...]

Read: Closing Questions

More Closure than Usual

by Charles Murray
The Conversation
October 22nd, 2008

Give me changes in the direction that Kevin Carey and Pedro Carneiro suggest in their most recent posts, and I’ll retire to the sidelines a happy man.

Read: More Closure than Usual

Improving College at the Margins

by Pedro Carneiro
The Conversation
October 21st, 2008

I agree that IQ, or at least some good measure of cognitive achievement, largely determines whether you succeed or not in college, although other factors can also play a role. And some people have more of it than others, so college is not for everyone. But for a large set of individuals, getting a BA [...]

Read: Improving College at the Margins

Let’s Make Academic Records More Informative

by Kevin Carey
The Conversation
October 20th, 2008

Let me suggest something that perhaps we can all agree on, convictions about IQ aside. We need a higher education system that produces much more accurate information about the students it enrolls and educates.
The standard degree consists of only two useful pieces of information printed on a single sheet of paper: the type of degree [...]

Read: Let’s Make Academic Records More Informative

Thresholds: Who Needs Them?

by Bryan Caplan
The Conversation
October 20th, 2008

I’m slightly puzzled by Murray’s analogy that “IQ is to success in life (or in college) as weight is to an offensive tackle in the NFL.”  If Murray’s only point is that there is some IQ threshold below which it is nearly impossible to complete college, I agree.  But the college threshold is vastly below [...]

Read: Thresholds: Who Needs Them?

P.S.

by Charles Murray
The Conversation
October 20th, 2008

It should go without saying that the IQ equivalent of 300 pounds for theoretical physicists is different than for, say, public policy analysts. But there is an equivalent for success in every job—and for success in every college major. And, yes, it does of course have fuzzy borders. There are still a few 288-pound offensive [...]

Read: P.S.

The 300-Pound NFL Lineman in the Room

by Charles Murray
The Conversation
October 20th, 2008

Regarding Bryan’s point that there are many reasons people don’t complete college, it remains true that IQ plays a fundamental role. It was expressed perfectly by NYU sociologist Steve Goldberg: IQ is to success in life (or in college) as weight is to offensive tackles in the NFL. The correlation between weight and performance among [...]

Read: The 300-Pound NFL Lineman in the Room

But All the Other Countries Are Doing It!

by Bryan Caplan
The Conversation
October 18th, 2008

Another intriguing Kevin Carey question:
The United States has historically been a leader among most nations in adopting policies designed to induce large numbers of people to pursue college degrees and to reduce the price of doing so. And the United States has the most productive, well-educated workforce in the world. In recent decades, many of [...]

Read: But All the Other Countries Are Doing It!

Why Do Students Drop Out, and Does It Matter?

by Bryan Caplan
The Conversation
October 18th, 2008

Kevin Carey raises an interesting point:
Bryan is correct that the job market doesn’t provide a lot of partial credit for higher education. But in saying so, he seems to accept Murray’s blanket contention that people don’t graduate from college because they’re not smart enough to handle college-level work. This just isn’t true.
If this really is [...]

Read: Why Do Students Drop Out, and Does It Matter?

Clarifying What I Thought Was Already A Clear Position

by Charles Murray
The Conversation
October 18th, 2008

I did not invent the definition of college readiness that the College Board used. I am not “alleging” that only 10 percent of youths have an SAT score that meets that definition, based on the students at 41 major state and private universities. That’s an empirical finding. I am not saying that an SAT score [...]

Read: Clarifying What I Thought Was Already A Clear Position

Why Are So Many “College-Unready” Students Doing So Well in College?

by Kevin Carey
The Conversation
October 17th, 2008

Charles, in your book you identify 1180 as the combined SAT score cutoff for college readiness, based on the study you cite. U.S. News & World Report reports the 25th and 75th percentile combined SAT scores for colleges and universities in its annual rankings. Here’s a list of colleges and universities ranked as “Tier One” [...]

Read: Why Are So Many “College-Unready” Students Doing So Well in College?

Do You Have Any Idea What an IQ of 110 Is Like?

by Charles Murray
The Conversation
October 17th, 2008

Quick identity switch from man of the people to arrogant elitest snob. Let me go back to the statistic I introduced in my original article. The College Board defined “college readiness” as a 65 percent probability of getting a 2.7 freshman grade-point average or better, and then used freshman records from 41 major universities to [...]

Read: Do You Have Any Idea What an IQ of 110 Is Like?

If Higher Ed Subsidies Are Wasteful, Why Don’t We See Competitive Countries Cutting Them?

by Kevin Carey
The Conversation
October 16th, 2008

Bryan is correct that the job market doesn’t provide a lot of partial credit for higher education. But in saying so, he seems to accept Murray’s blanket contention that people don’t graduate from college because they’re not smart enough to handle college-level work. This just isn’t true. Researchers have been [...]

Read: If Higher Ed Subsidies Are Wasteful, Why Don’t We See Competitive Countries Cutting Them?